Man’s Eye View PDF
This interview I did with my “Online Dating Master” of a friend is a real eye opener. Eavesdrop on my conversation with a real man who has recently been in the online dating trenches. Nick is one of those great guys I promise you is out there. He tells me what he saw, what repelled him, and what drew him in when he was using a popular online dating site to meet women.
Michael Fiore: Hey folks, how’s it going? This is Michael Fiore, and I want to welcome you to a special interview I’m doing with my soon-to-be-good-friend, Nick. I haven’t known Nick for that long. He’s actually dating a friend of mine, so I had to stand there with a shotgun the first time he came over and act like her dad. But Nick is a guy who, in my experience from talking to him, has had a lot of success with online dating. And in our conversations over the last few weeks, we’ve talked about online dating quite a bit, and [about] the mistakes that women make. And Nick is also I guess what you could call “a catch.” He’s a guy in his 40s who’s actually in good shape, who actually makes a living of his own of some kind, does not have 16 ex-wives sitting around the entire time, is the kind of guy who any woman who is actually going on to online dating might actually be lucky to date in some way. And so I invited Nick to do this interview to basically give a brother-man’s-eye-view on the whole concept of online dating, on the mistakes that a lot of women make on their online dating profiles and the emails they give and just in general on how to have more success in finding good guys when you do online dating. So Nick, say hello.
Nick: Hey, how’s it going?
Michael Fiore: Wonderful! What a great voice for radio. My god. So Nick, really quickly just give us a little background on who you are, how old you are, your experience with online dating, how you got into online dating in the first place.
Nick: Well I’m 44 years old, and I started looking at online dating about two years ago. Rather intensely. I had a long-term relationship, you know, my life partner at the time that I thought I was going to make it to the end with and I needed a change. I never really dated aggressively after a relationship, there’s usually about a year mourning period if I’m really into somebody. And I decided to take a different approach because it was a pretty painful transition. So I’ve…
Michael Fiore: How long were you with that woman before?
Nick: Four years.
Michael Fiore: Okay, long time. Yeah.
Nick: And I went onto one of the more popular sites that isn’t focused on like, a hook up and isn’t focused on, you know, a particular religious background, but one that’s very broad. And I had four of my close friends who were already using online dating, so I had them help me on my profile. So I had a huge aid going into the process.
Michael Fiore: So you weren’t going in totally cold, just kind of writing, you know various things about yourself.
Nick: No, my close friends let me look at their profiles and look at the women that they were communicating with and the types of communications they had. And that was… for me, because I study systems, I couldn’t help but start to apply—not the necessarily most romantic approach—but system logic to it. And I was like “Hmm. Well, I want to make sure I don’t misrepresent myself,” and I got to figure out how to actually get in touch with the people that I would want to spend time with instead of just like whatever may come along.
Michael Fiore: Instead of just randomly scatter-shooting messages out. Because what a lot of guys do, by the way, is they go online and they treat online dating like a shopping mall, basically.
Nick: They spam.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, they spam. And I call them “sex shoppers,” right? There’s basically these guys who, they come up with one message that they send over and over again. They tweak that message, like some kind of spammy email kind of thing and they send it out to a few hundred women and see who actually responds, and they go from there and kind of hope to get something. But it seems like you were trying to be a little more selective about what you wanted.
Nick: I represented myself. I’m a pretty unusual person: I’ve done a lot of unique things in my life, and so I don’t want to date someone that can’t handle my lifestyle or that isn’t a good fit. So as a result, I represented myself as accurately as I could possibly do it. Still positive…
Michael Fiore: But not in a way… so this is important, actually, because people write in to me all the time and say, “Michael, I’m trying to be honest in my profile, so I talked about the awards that I won for playing soccer in high school and about my bipolar disorder.” And I mean, maybe that’s a bit of an exaggeration. But…
Nick: I’ve read a profile that looked just like that.
Michael Fiore: You’ve seen profiles, but like any guy when I was on online dating, I would see profiles where sometimes you would see a picture of a beautiful woman and then it’s like it talks about her cats or talks about her ex-boyfriend. I’m like, why are you talking about your ex-boyfriend? “My ex-boyfriend broke my heart, and I’m looking for a good man,” or something like that. It just seems absurd to me because an online profile is essentially an advertisement, right? So continue. Go ahead…
Nick: So there’s a huge amount of simple details that really quickly eliminated people that I initially browsed. Pictures—and by the way, I just want to frame it quickly—it starts with pictures.
Michael Fiore: It always starts with pictures.
Nick: It only and ever for all men always starts with pictures.
Michael Fiore: So let’s talk about… I talk about that in the program we’re doing here, but I think it’s worth reinforcing, because a lot of women will even… they won’t put a picture up, sometimes.
Nick: Instant…
Michael Fiore: Well, let’s talk about this. What do you immediately assume if a woman doesn’t put a picture up?
Nick: Lots of unpleasant things.
Michael Fiore: Just go ahead and say it.
Nick: That she’s not attractive. That she’s overweight. But most importantly that she lacks the self-confidence that I find interesting in women. And that’s like the biggest and most permanent deal killer. See, if you can’t put a picture up, A. I don’t know if you’re a real person. You could be a 15-year-old guy in Wisconsin. There’s no way to really tell what’s going on there. You know, it’s not like there’s actual… when you’re looking at a profile, you’re not looking at a person…
Michael Fiore: You’re not in a bar.
Nick: It’s a collection of text and images. So what I do when I look at that collection of text and images and questions that are answered is I look for consistency. Something that says “this is a real person” and I’m really getting a feel of who they are. They don’t have to be, you know, blatantly obvious and about different aspects of their life that they’re struggling with, because, you know, what I’m looking for is how good does this person feel about themselves, how good an experience are they having? Because it’s like… Imagine a profile that’s like, “I’m in the middle of a giant downer of a life. I feel trapped and I don’t know what I want to do. Go on a date with me!” That will never work. Well, it actually will on…
Michael Fiore: Or, “I am looking for a gentleman to take me out,” right? Which to me was always a big turn-off because it’s like you’re needy and you’re going to make me pay for everything.
Nick: That’s right up there with spelling “secure” with a dollar sign.
Michael Fiore: Oh, I never saw that one.
Nick: Oh, it’s hideous. Yeah, it’s…
Michael Fiore: “I’m looking for a \$ecure man,” and it has a dollar sign?
Nick: “Be $ecure,” and there’s a dollar sign in the “secure.” And then “generous” usually comes after.
Michael Fiore: Generous, yeah.
Nick: I always assumed—and I don’t know if it’s real or not—but I always assumed if somebody did that, they were actually a prostitute; and I’m serious.
Michael Fiore: They’re not necessarily a prostitute. There are sites out there that are built around sugar daddies and sugar babies, and it’s not necessarily prostitution, but it is generally women in their 20s going after guys in their 40s, 50s and 60s, and the idea is that the guy will pay for everything and the girl will have sex with them. But it isn’t technically prostitution, but it’s prostitution, essentially. But that’s actually very, very common. So let’s talk a little more about pictures there and can you tell me: A. what kind of pictures have you seen that made you want to learn more about a woman, and then: B. what pictures make you want to go running for the hills.
Nick: Okay, so in the A scenario, images of women doing things that they are genuinely passionate about.
Michael Fiore: There we go.
Nick: So activities. Also non-fake smile. One of the things is seven pictures of the same woman and she has the exact same expression in all seven of them, and it might be a lovely expression, but it’s the same one, and I just imagined that, you know, if I went out on a date with her, I would see that expression.
Michael Fiore: The entire time.
Nick: If we started seeing each other, I would see that expression, and that’s all I’m ever going to really encounter. So it has to be in a lot of varied circumstances. And they have to be honest pictures, which means you need to see at least one full head to toe or at least knees up shot of the person.
Michael Fiore: Well, let’s talk about that. We talk about that in the program. We say you have to have, I mean generally, the photos we say you have to have are the body shot, right, which is generally going to be … I would say waist up right? Waist up is okay.
Nick: Sure.
Michael Fiore: Legs, seeing at least some of the legs is even better. It doesn’t mean you have to be naked. You shouldn’t be naked.
Nick: No.
Michael Fiore: If you’re in a bikini that goes the wrong way, I would generally say.
Nick: Right.
Michael Fiore: Then we say you have to have a headshot. I gotta know what you look like, and I can actually see your face. And then I usually say you have to have passion photos, like you said. If you’re a rock climber, show me that you rock climb. If you do capoeira, show me you’re doing capoeira. Things like that. Are there any particular others that you want to see in general in a profile?
Nick: Well, I like to see one picture of the person interacting with other people. And, well… No that’s about it. I just need to get a good read of what they actually…
Michael Fiore: So, basically, they don’t have tentacles.
Nick: Right.
Michael Fiore: They actually have a body that they’re not ashamed of.
Nick: Right.
Michael Fiore: Again, it’s not about being in great shape, necessarily, but being like, this is what you have and you’re cool with it. Having a headshot and then also having one that shows that you actually have a life of some kind.
Nick: And if I could, I just want to add this in…
Michael Fiore: Yeah, go ahead.
Nick: To me, when I was really into online dating—and I’ve actually met someone through online dating that I’m absolutely crazy about…
Michael Fiore: She’s pretty lovely.
Nick: Yeah she’s… she’s….
Michael Fiore: She’s one of my best friends, so I can say that.
Nick: So, to me, I quickly understood that for men and women, for myself and others when it comes to online dating, you always fall into one of two categories. And that is, physically, when it comes to the physical, you either, at our age, let yourself go or not. Now that’s not a deal killer, because some people are literally out there looking for someone with personality. They generally have let themselves go. And it’s not… there’s nothing wrong with it. What’s wrong with it is when you’re interested in dating someone that hasn’t let themselves go and you have, because that’s hypocrisy. Right away, that to me says, you know, jerk. That you’re going to hold someone else to a standard that you can’t live up to.
Michael Fiore: So that seems like a very common thing that men do, by the way.
Nick: Yes, they do.
Michael Fiore: A lot of men, you know, women will write in to us all the time and they say, “Michael, I’m a 40-year-old woman. I take care of myself. I’m in good shape. I keep getting emails from 60-year-old fat guys,” over and over again.
Nick: And it’s something, that’s why there’s as much need for men to figure it out in terms of online dating as there is for women, any day of the week. But so, in the physical world, you either let yourself go or you didn’t and then it comes down to the personality. It’s the same thing. Either you’re a superficial person or you have some depth to you and it’s kind of like… and you can mix those. You can let yourself go and you’re superficial, bad combo.
Michael Fiore: Really bad combo.
Nick: That person is probably not going to do well in online dating.
Michael Fiore: I would hope not.
Nick: And unfortunately, sometimes they do.
Michael Fiore: Sometimes they do.
Nick: You know, let yourself go and extremely deep person, that’s actually… as long as you can get that to read in your profile and you’re trying to find someone that that’s their values and not interested in them being a person who takes care of themselves physically…
Michael Fiore: You can’t ask for six-pack abs if you don’t have them yourself, generally speaking.
Nick: That’s the truth. But really it’s just then the question of how to relay that. It starts with the images, because personality reads in photos. Don’t fake it. So we talked about… you know you talked to me about what works and what doesn’t.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, what doesn’t?
Nick: What doesn’t work is a mile long, and I’ll try and keep it simple. So in terms of faking it, no trying to make yourself look better than you actually are. All of my photos online are very good photos of me, but there’s no makeup involved, there’s no Photoshop involved.
Michael Fiore: Now, we’re not saying that women can’t wear makeup, ’cause women want to wear makeup. But don’t wear clown makeup.
Nick: Exactly.
Michael Fiore: Don’t wear like…
Nick: And don’t gloss the photograph in Photoshop.
Michael Fiore: Softening of everything.
Nick: Softening of everything so that everything looks dreamy. Those are instant turn-offs, because I know right away that person’s not capable of presenting themselves accurately.
Michael Fiore: Plus it means when you actually meet them, they’re not going to be who you thought you were meeting.
Nick: Exactly.
Michael Fiore: I would rather have my photos look slightly below what I actually look rather than slightly above what I look, because then when I present in person, they’re like, “Wow, good looking guy! Okay, great!” As opposed to the anti-hard-on of like, “Oh, wait, you’re not who I actually thought you were.”
Nick: There’s a lot of camera angles that I mean in a thumbnail sized photograph, a photograph the size of a quarter, I can already tell that this person is not… ’cause I take care of myself, I’m reasonably fit, I’m looking for someone who matches the cut.
Michael Fiore: Nick here is actually one of the fittest 44-year-old people I know, actually. I’m reasonably fit, he could kick my ass, I’m sure, so there you go.
Nick: And so there’s things like a headshot taken from way above the person so they’re looking up into it. So that is a way of hiding being overweight. Side shot where the person puts their hand on their hip and bends their elbow behind their back: that’s a great way to look thin, except nobody knows that, so I see that photo and I know I’m dealing with someone who wishes they were thinner than they actually are. So it just presented an insecurity.
Michael Fiore: Well, is being overweight a deal killer? ‘Cause a lot of women are going to be like, “Well, I have a couple extra pounds.”
Nick: There’s different degrees of overweight. Obese, without a question, yes. So if you can’t jog a mile comfortably, yeah that’s an instant and total deal killer for me because I can jog a mile.
Michael Fiore: But it’s not necessarily a deal killer for guys who can’t jog a mile comfortably. And there’s a lot of them.
Nick: And that’s the thing, as long as wherever you’re at, it’s neither right or wrong, but try to probably go after people that have a similar body type to you.
Michael Fiore: Well it’s also like in general when you see couples on the street, typically your brain says that’s okay when they look similar.
Nick: Right.
Michael Fiore: Oh fit guy, fit girl. Fat guy, fat girl. Our brains go nuts when we see really, really fat guy, really attractive woman.
Nick: It doesn’t make any sense.
Michael Fiore: We immediately think he must be rich at that point, right? And if we see really really fat woman and really, really thin guy, we literally have no explanation for it. It doesn’t make any sense. We’re just like, “I don’t get…”
Nick: That must be his sister.
Michael Fiore: That must be his sister, or he’s trying to take something from her, or something’s going on from there. And sometimes, when both men and women write in to us and say they’re having trouble with online dating, the problem is they’re aiming for the wrong target.
Nick: Right. They’re not being realistic about their self-perception. It’s not like there’s good and there’s bad, it’s just realistic. So be realistic about where you’re at.
Michael Fiore: Generally if you’re 5’3″, you’re not going to date a six-foot-tall model.
Nick: I have a friend who’s, you know 6’3″, beautiful sparkling eyes, very attractive guy, but he weights 245 almost 250 lbs. And he constantly goes after drop-dead-gorgeous models and he lives a frustrated life because of that. And I’ve said to him, like, “What about, you know, this girl?” and I’ll meet a girl and be like “Have you met this girl? She’s really awesome.” And he’s like, “Oh yeah, she’s fat. Yeah, have you seen her stomach?”
Michael Fiore: But you’re fat…
Nick: And honestly, she’s like in the realm of women I would date.
Michael Fiore: Me, too.
Nick: She’s got a little extra, nothing intense, you know she can jog a mile. Nope, that’s not his type. He wants somebody who’s just drop-dead gorgeous in the body realm, and I’m like, “Well, why don’t you set an example?”
Michael Fiore: Why don’t you actually do something, right? Because again, we get people, both men and women who say, “I just want a man who accepts me for who I am, but I want a man who is tall, in great shape, makes a lot of money…” I’m like, “Well, you don’t work and you’re overweight and you know you gotta do some work at that point, right? You gotta work on yourself and don’t do it for him, do it for yourself, be that kind of person.” Let’s refocus back really quickly on a few more of the photos that are big turn offs.
Nick: Okay. Anything in a wedding dress.
Michael Fiore: Yeah.
Nick: Anything in total nuke [nude?]. That doesn’t, for me.
Michael Fiore: Even if it’s a joke.
Nick: Even if it’s a joke, it’s not funny. I don’t know you. Like, you know I have to get to know a person to understand their sense of humor.
Michael Fiore: Hold on, hold on a second, Nick ’cause there are women, I was talking to somebody recently who said that she put on her profile, “I’m only looking for a guy who’s interested in a serious relationship.” Now, knowing you, I think you’re somebody who’s open to a serious relationship.
Nick: Yeah.
Michael Fiore: Seems like you’re getting into one.
Nick: For sure.
Michael Fiore: With somebody I know and love quite a bit. If you saw that on a profile, would you even write that person?
Nick: Well, me personally? No, because there’s an inflexibility there. Like, for one, how do you even know you want to get into a serious relationship with that person? You don’t know them.
Michael Fiore: You don’t know them, yeah.
Nick: Also it suggests a kind of desperateness. Like that they’re not really capable of maintaining their boundaries, because if you’re only interested in a serious relationship, you know, what I would go after is a dissuader to superficial people looking for sex. I think that’s what they’re actually trying to say there, because, you know, there are a lot of casual-sex-seekers, so don’t use that phrase on your profile anywhere.
Michael Fiore: The word “casual sex” or the word “sex.”
Nick: Yeah, like even in the negative. Like, “I am not interested in casual sex.” Okay, well…
Michael Fiore: The word is still there… Try not think of the pink elephant in the room.
Nick: They’re like so you know the dog’s response is “How about semi-casual?”
Michael Fiore: Exactly.
Nick: And you’ve already turned the conversation to that place. So the same is true with, you know, only people that are interested in serious relationships, because first of all, like, everybody’s interested in a serious relationship.
Michael Fiore: With the right person.
Nick: With someone they’re crazy about. So what are you trying to force, there? It suggests an insecurity. And a lot of people who want to try to be firm are really just broadcasting, “I’m insecure!” and it’s sad, because I can see what they’re trying to do, but they need to get a little bit better at finding a more authentic way of asking for what they need.
Michael Fiore: Okay, so wedding dress or anything that is showing some kind of like trying on rings, which I’ve actually seen before.
Nick: The ex violently cut out of the picture. You know? Or like the ex, them standing together, my favorite all time one.
Michael Fiore: Yeah.
Nick: The single worst photo of them all was the woman in her profile, her wedding photo with a “Mister Yuck” face photoshopped over her, I hope, ex-husband.
Michael Fiore: Oh my god.
Nick: It was like the… And it said, “Only interested in serious relationships.”
Michael Fiore: Must want to get married within the next 15 minutes.
Nick: Must want to get married! And I was like, you know, wow, so that you can fit in that photo? Maybe you should just take that photo, Photoshop your face into it and then send it to her. See if it fits.
Michael Fiore: What about bikini shots? What about sexy shots? What does that say to you?
Nick: Well, not always…
Michael Fiore: I think the context is what matters.
Nick: Yeah, it’s the context. Like if it’s someone standing there going like, “Hey, look at me! I’m in a bikini!”
Michael Fiore: “Look at my tits.”
Nick: You know, yeah, but if it’s somebody windsurfing and they’re in a bikini, that’s an honest way for them to…
Michael Fiore: Or, for me, if I saw a girl like doing Crossfit and I’m like, “Awesome, great!” But you’re doing something at that point. You’re not just showing off the skin at that point.
Nick: And the reason why that matters to me is because if they’re just showing off the skin, then they are just asking for skin.
Michael Fiore: They are.
Nick: It’s really just… ’cause it’s a reflection. The other one that I would say, number two bad photo is kissing your dog’s mouth.
Michael Fiore: Is that really common?
Nick: Yes, it is. Also, no drawn mustache photos. That’s done.
Michael Fiore: Oh, yeah.
Nick: So a lot of women think it’s really funny to put a Dahliaesque mustache on and take a picture. The number four on my mind is any bathroom photo with the iPhone.
Michael Fiore: The selfie.
Nick: Yeah, the selfie. Crappy bathroom photo where you can see the cell phone taking the picture.
Michael Fiore: What does that say to you? What does that mean to you?
Nick: It just means that the person doesn’t care or that they have no style, no panache, they…
Michael Fiore: Or no friends.
Nick: Or no friends.
Michael Fiore: Or, for me, what it actually says—and I say this in the program—is you’re ashamed of what you’re doing, right? If the only shot you’re taking is yourself in your bathroom mirror, it means you’re ashamed of online dating. You feel like online dating is some kind of skeezy thing. But online dating is how most people are meeting people these days.
Nick: Right.
Michael Fiore: Like, a lot of people. I forget the exact stats, but it goes up every single year. I’ve met wonderful women online, some of whom I’m still friends with. I didn’t meet my fianc\'{e} that way just because of luck more than anything else, but I very well could have. But the idea that you’re ashamed of what you’re doing, you’re taking these really skeezy shots… Get a friend. It’s okay. They can hold the camera for you. Great. So that kind of talked about photos, but I think it reinforces a lot of what we’re actually saying in the program around don’t be too sexy, don’t be desperate, don’t have the funny photo as your only photo kind of thing, where you’re like you know trying to make a joke through the entire thing. Once you get inside a profile, what are you looking for?
Nick: I’m looking for personality. I’m looking for a dynamic person that is excited about life and doing something interesting and is self confident.
Michael Fiore: What does that mean?
Nick: It means that they aren’t trying to find a man to complete themselves. That they’re already complete, they’re already on their mission, they just want to meet somebody that they could share the experience with but that’s not required.
Michael Fiore: So let me just restate that, actually, because I think it’s really important, is that the men—and women, too—are looking for a person… What I say in the program is, “You’re already having the adventure, but you’d like somebody to come along.”
Nick: Exactly.
Michael Fiore: It’s not… but again, we see so many women—and some men even—who are just like, “If only I had that man, I’d be able to do something,” right? And I’m like, that’s not attractive. It’s not like… Nobody wants to date that person.
Nick: And the odds of you meeting somebody under that pretense and having it be a positive experience you know, like maybe you could get into a relationship with them. But what kind of person, you know, is setting themselves up to be a part of that? Not the best.
Michael Fiore: You’re attracting bad guys at that point, right? I mean, I even talk about it in the program about douchebags, about manipulators, people like that, and that’s who you’re kind of putting the flag out for. So what else are you looking for in the profile at that point?
Nick: Well when I first… I mean, when I browse looking for somebody I’m interested in, the first thing that draws me in are their photos, and then that will make me check out their profile. And their profile, maybe the first time I look at it, I don’t read it word for word, that’s actually pretty common. I scan it and I look for interesting things that pop out at me. Things that make them a unique person. So like you know, “I’m really into motorcycles.” Of course, just to let you know, that is a total hook for almost all guys. Any woman who’s like, “I’m into motorcycles,” I don’t care what walk of life you come from, it’s pretty hard to not be attracted to a woman that’s a motorcyclist, it’s just a little gimme there on the side. But… And I’m looking for somebody that’s happy. So I don’t want to read about how hard their life has been and how they’ve endured incredible difficulties and they’re just glad to be here.
Michael Fiore: They’re nihilists.
Nick: Yeah. That may be true, but again because we’re, if I have a choice to date somebody that is not, you know, an Auschwitz survivor, and is still talking about it, I’m going to go for that other person.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, of course.
Nick: And it’s not that I’m a bad person…
Michael Fiore: So let’s answer the question here that’s going on. Some women are going to say, “But I’m not happy, why should I lie on my profile?”
Nick: Because when you cry, you cry alone, and when you laugh, the world laughs along with you. And it’s just that simple.
Michael Fiore: Oh, yeah, yeah. I would say it’s not fair, but again, you don’t walk up to random people…when somebody says, “How’s your day going?” they don’t actually want you to say, “It’s shitty,” right? “Hey, how you doing?!” “Oh, I’m awful!” Nobody actually wants that, right?
Nick: I mean, unless you know them well.
Michael Fiore: Unless you know them well, yeah.
Nick: I find a lot of my days going great, and so it’s a contrast.
Michael Fiore: “Oh, I could really use some help right now,” that’s fine. But a random person you just met, they don’t want that. At first, you need to present yourself as doing well, having a good time, having a good life that doesn’t need somebody else in it.
Nick: Right. I just try to think about yourself from the outside. I might really want someone to meet my mother, but what are the odds of me getting a second date if I sit down and go, “I’d really like you to meet my mother.” That’s a killer! Now, that may be my actual sentiment, but there’s other things I can be honest about, too, that don’t make people pack and run.
Michael Fiore: So it’s selective honesty. It’s honesty with a benefit orientation.
Nick: In online dating, you are promoting yourself. So the first thing I’m judging about a person is how good are you at the task that you’ve taken on? Let’s face it, if you’re going to promote yourself, don’t do a bad job of it. ‘Cause already you’ve said, you’re presenting, like, “Hey, I’m trying to do this thing and I’m terrible at it… come on a date with me!” Like that’s just…
Michael Fiore: “My friends put me up to this. I don’t’ really want to be here. Let’s go on a date.”
Nick: Right. Or, “Gosh, what, I never know what to say about myself. I can’t stand filling out these forms.” It’s like, well that is just so inviting and makes me want to…
Michael Fiore: It’s like showing up at soccer game with a baseball bat at that point. What are you doing?
Nick: Right. Wherever you are, whatever you’re doing, be into it, and so if you don’t like online dating, don’t do it. If you want to give it a shot, put your back into it. Make it something you’re excited about.
Michael Fiore: Anything else you want to say about the actual profile that you’re looking for? I think the passion thing is huge, and again we show people how to do that in our program. Focusing on your passions, figuring out what your passions are, and how to even take it when you don’t have… When you don’t think you have passions, you’re wrong, generally speaking. You usually do. What about kids?
Nick: Well, that really depends on the person, because there are some people that are very comfortable dating women with children from other marriages, and there are some people, like myself after a couple of negative experiences, that’s one of my eliminators. And it’s not that I have any giant bias against women with kids, it’s just experience. I’ve had less pleasant experiences dating women that had children than dating women that didn’t have children.
Michael Fiore: If a woman was… you saw her profile, beautiful girl, had a lot of activities, seems to have an amazing life, had a mission in her life and was doing great things, you know, great profile, also had a kid. Would that be a total deal killer?
Nick: No. It would be, it used to be like when I first had my bad experiences through online dating with women that had children, I made it pretty steadfast like, “Well, that’s it, that’s it, that’s it.”
Michael Fiore: Especially at your age, ’cause you’re in your 40s, a lot of women have kids.
Nick: Right. And it’s difficult. It makes it really challenging for me, because I actually run into those profiles a lot. This woman’s amazing… ahhhh three kids. That’s going to be a handful. That’s going to be a lot of work in addition to just having a great experience with a person I’m going to… it’s also challenging because you don’t know how the person is with boundaries with those children. For example, if their children are all over their profile, then that pretty much… you’re going to meet their children really quick, and I think that’s destructive.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, me too.
Nick: Because I don’t think it’s very healthy for young children to be introduced to strangers as…
Michael Fiore: And then they disappear… where’d dad go?
Nick: Exactly. So I think noting that you have a kid, if you have a kid, is important. I don’t think it’s appropriate to put pictures of your child on your profile.
Michael Fiore: So what would be the appropriate way to mention that they have children in the profile and how much space should it be given?
Nick: “Has a kid.”
Michael Fiore: Yeah.
Nick: One of the questions is inevitably, “Do you have offspring? How many?” You just say “1, I have a kid.”
Michael Fiore: I have a kid.
Nick: Let that…
Michael Fiore: What if there was a string of activities that she was really into, says “What do you enjoy doing?” “I love playing beach volleyball, I love going hiking, I play guitar in a band, and I hang out with my son a lot.”
Nick: That’s not terrible, but, you know, I would assume that any parent hangs out with their child. I get that from “has kids.”
Michael Fiore: Unless you’re a really bad parent.
Nick: Right. I mean, “Has a kid and I don’t care about them and I lock them in the cellar.” You know, that’s not something I’m going to assume about anybody.
Michael Fiore: Totally, yeah. Most people are… at least have parental instinct, yes.
Nick: I would say like an artfully stated like, “Really enjoying, you know, giving the best upbringing to my kids.” You know, something like that, but short. You can reference it once, but if I see that all over someone’s profile, yeah it’s like I want them to meet somebody who’s really into taking care of a kid. And there are those people out there. So if you have a kid and you want to meet someone that you want to have them father up, you’re going to eliminate a huge number of guys, but you at least are being, you know… putting yourself in a position if that’s what you want, that rarified thing. You’re targeting the right audience.
Michael Fiore: But there are few of those guys out there that are looking for that.
Nick: That’s true.
Michael Fiore: There are guys who are open to it.
Nick: I would say your best chance is to look for guys that have a kid.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, definitely. It is weird, I was talking to one of the women who works in my company, and she was saying she has a friend who has kids who refuses to date guys with kids.
Nick: Well, again…
Michael Fiore: Which seems a little weird to me
Nick: Yeah that’s…
Michael Fiore: It’s like, “Yeah, too much baggage,” and I’m like “What about yours?” How strange.
Nick: See, that just right away says a lack of self-reflection.
Michael Fiore: So there’s that. Anything else about what you look for in a profile that a woman has, like a positive or a total deal killer?
Nick: That’s the thing is that they take the time to work at being witty. Write your profile a couple times. Get your friends to review it and friends that aren’t “yes men” that aren’t like “Oh, I love it, it’s so wonderful!” Like write one pretty not-so-great profile with your maybe two or three attempts, and then that way if your friend says, “Oh, they’re all so great,” you know that you’re talking to the wrong person.
Michael Fiore: They’re giving you bullshit at that point.
Nick: So but witty is super important. For me, I mean, I’m an author. I, you know, I write a strong line. I look for somebody who can be funny. Also one of the things I look at is do they have a question at the end of their profile that, where they’re, I like to see if they’re actually trying to find out who’s real and who’s not. Because that to me says, “Oh, I’m dealing with a sophisticated person.”
Michael Fiore: It means you’re also not dealing with quite as much competition, hopefully.
Nick: Right. Because if a woman waits ’til the end of her profile to ask a clarifying question that you need to answer to start a conversation with her, she’s already testing to see if you take the time to thoroughly look at what she’s written before you respond. That’s, by the way, a very smart thing to do.
Michael Fiore: It’s like that old story about the test. Teachers give this test where there’s like 15 questions and the last question is simply “Turn your paper over,” right, and it says “Ignore all previous questions and turn this paper over,” and they always say like nobody actually reads all the way through first, but if you do you get rewarded in some way. What are some examples of those clarifying questions that you’ve seen that you really like?
Nick: Oh they can be simple like, “Message me if…” Let’s see, now I’m trying to think of one, give me a sec…
Michael Fiore: So some of the examples that we tend to give are things as simple as, “What’s your favorite line from \emph{The Big Lebowski}?” right, if that’s something that’s interesting to you. Or if it’s activity based, like capoiera, you would do something based around capoeira, you could do something based around that. Didn’t you have one that you actually use on your profile?
Nick: Yes, I did.
Michael Fiore: What was that?
Nick: I said, “Know what callipygous means or be able to look it up and believe that it applies to you.”
Michael Fiore: Callipygous?
Nick: Callipygian, or…
Michael Fiore: Callipygian… we’re not even going to say what it means on this interview, because I want people to look it up instead, it’s funnier that way.
Nick: Then you’ll know if they actually listened to this.
Michael Fiore: But again, it’s an engagement mechanism, and it shows that you’re willing to… you’re not just looking for anybody.
Nick: I would say an example of, to answer that question earlier, what are some of those questions that screen, “Tell me about something you’re terrible at,” or “What’s an embarrassing moment that you would be willing to share on a first date?” Just a simple, like that way you don’t have to know, you don’t have to have watched \emph{The Big Lebowski} because that’s, although that’s good…
Michael Fiore: It might be too limiting.
Nick: Yeah. You might end up eliminating someone.
Michael Fiore: So you’re looking for a universal but vulnerable in some way. Like show them that you’re willing to put something out there in some way. And I totally agree with you. ‘Cause again, a lot of guys who are just looking for sex, a lot of guys who are scammers, are never going to answer a question. They’re going to use the same bottled line over and over again.
Nick: Which means you don’t have to respond to them or read what they have to say. Its a nice way to get rid of that. I haven’t had to do that too much because women generally don’t… they’re not trolls.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, generally, yeah. But men are. I actually built a profile as a woman once, which was a fascinating experience, and got hundreds of messages from trolls as well as messages from people I know, who to this day do not know that I was that profile. I felt really bad actually afterwards ’cause one of them was a really nice guy, a very attractive guy, and he kept asking and I was like, I eventually just wrote him back and was like, “Oh, me and my ex-boyfriend got back together, blah, blah, blah have a good time,” ’cause I felt awful about it. So, Nick, let’s talk about can you really meet good guys online?
Nick: Absolutely.
Michael Fiore: Yeah? But…
Nick: I’ve met a lot of really quality women online, and you know I’ve known plenty of women that have met good guys online.
Michael Fiore: So why is that so many women can’t seem to meet good guys online?
Nick: Because they don’t’ represent themselves attractively as well as authentically, and they have no idea how to filter out the giant army of terrible people that are trying to get a date or sex.
Michael Fiore: So what kind of attitude do you need to have to have success, then? Because there is a giant army of terrible people looking for a date or sex or money in some cases, depending on what site you’re actually on.
Nick: Well, a friend of mine said to me once, “If you, as a man, if you have a modicum of manners and wit, you shine like a deity over the average guy out there.”
Michael Fiore: Yeah, you’re a beacon.
Nick: And that’s really sad but true. It’s actually what makes online dating pretty easy for men like us, because, you know, we’re authentic and witty and reasonably good-looking, and that pretty much puts us in the 1\%.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, totally.
Nick: So how to find that 1\%? A. Let people know in your profile what you’re looking for. Use filtering, a filtering question at the end of your profile. Represent yourself accurately, authentically, but also attractively.
Michael Fiore: Not negatively. Don’t talk about your surgeries, don’t talk about your mental problems, don’t talk about all that other stuff.
Nick: I have this one photo, and I don’t know how it got made, but it’s me in an XL shirt, I generally don’t wear really large shirts.
Michael Fiore: You’re not that big of a person.
Nick: Right. And I don’t know if I had been drinking or what, but I’m leaning over a friend of mine’s shoulder and my stomach pushes out and it looks like have a bowling ball under my shirt. I call it wind in the shirt because I was like, “Oh, there must have been a wind up my shirt!” But anyway, I don’t put that photo online.
Michael Fiore: No!
Nick: That’s disastrous. So, you know, A. when I look at a woman’s photos it’s like, is there a photography eye? Does she actually have an eye, ’cause right away I’m learning about a person. “Oh, look at this, they actually know the difference between a good photo and a bad photo, that tells me a lot.”
Michael Fiore: And do you like yourself enough to put good things about yourself up there?
Nick: Right. ‘Cause, you know, I’m finding out does the person have a sense of style? Is the person authentic? Is the person self-confident? Those three things pretty much trump everything else.
Michael Fiore: Yep, yep, no matter what’s going on. So let’s talk about… what about like when a woman writes you? How do you react to that? A lot of women are really reluctant to ever write a guy online. They feel like if they write a guy online, they are putting themselves out there, they are exposing themselves in a way. They’re also doing “the man’s job” in that case. It’s supposed to be the man who pursues them. Most women, the ideal would be they put up their online profile and only great guys who are looking for something great and serious write them and they all write them instead. If you get a message from a woman, what does that say to you about her?
Nick: Well, first of all, I just want to respond to people thinking that it’s a man’s job to communicate: that’s sexist.
Michael Fiore: I agree.
Nick: Sexism is not attractive whether it comes from men or women. What I would say is that, sadly, I have talked to a lot of my female friends and they say messaging a guy and saying like, “Hey,” you know, that can work if it’s a short message that shows that you’ve read their profile and it’s a mild invite. Like, “I really liked reading this in your profile. You seem like a very interesting person.” Period. Send it off. So if you’re going to send a message, never more than two sentences.
Michael Fiore: I agree.
Nick: Ever, ever, ever.
Michael Fiore: The paragraph… I mean that goes both ways. I mean as a woman receiving a message, you’re not going to read the seven paragraphs, generally speaking, either.
Nick: And it already says you’re dealing with somebody that’s so rooted in their world of fantasy that they’re willing to pour out their heart to someone they don’t know.
Michael Fiore: One of my best friends once got a message from a guy, and it was literally seven paragraphs, and it was like, “I have been looking for you for so long. You are the one, the stars in the sky for me, the woman of my dreams, the woman that the Lord has put on this earth for me, blah, blah, blah.” And then got really confused when he didn’t get a message back.
Nick: Wow.
Michael Fiore: Yeah.
Nick: I actually know a woman who got messaged like that, responded back to by saying, “Hey, thanks, that’s really nice and heartfelt. I’m going to be away for the weekend, so maybe we can talk next week sometime,” and he then sent another message and another and another and by the time Monday morning had rolled around, he had sent 49 messages. He had gone through the whole cycle of like a five-year committed relationship over a weekend. There was the true love, there was you know the honeymoon, the rough middle and then the sad break up and the try over again and she just was like, “Wow, I didn’t even need to be there.”
Michael Fiore: You’re a psycho. So if a woman writes you…
Nick: So if a woman writes me, she just needs to basically tip her hand at the fact that she’s read my profile and that she likes it and that’s about it.
Michael Fiore: And that initial message actually I think is an invitation to look at her profile.
Nick: Right.
Michael Fiore: More than anything else.
Nick: There’s actually… I haven’t had a lot of success messaging women, and if I’m not interested in a woman, like if she ‘s not…
Michael Fiore: I will say this: most guys don’t have a lot of success messaging women, like writing them directly. Like even guys who are gorgeous and rich, whatever else. I think it’s actually important to talk about this: as a guy, it’s a way different experience as a guy on online dating than as a woman. ‘Cause as a guy, you’re expecting to be putting yourself out there all the time, and a lot of women are getting hundreds of messages, and your job at that point is to break through all that in some way and actually get a response.
Nick: A perfect example is my current relationship. I messaged her nine months earlier, turned off my profile, had a relationship, that relationship ended, turned my profile back on, and about a month after my profile was running again, she responded to it. And I was like, “Seriously?”
Michael Fiore: That’s crazy.
Nick: Wow. Okay, well she was in my favorites list and I did think she was incredibly hot.
Michael Fiore: Well, there you go. But I also think it’s good for women to have sympathy for men in this particular case, because yes, there are men who are just looking for sex, and we should talk about that… all men are looking for sex.
Nick: Yes. Men are looking for sex. But they are, you know… decent men are looking for sex after they’ve gotten to know somebody they really like.
Michael Fiore: I would say decent men are looking for sex and… Sex and … whatever that’s going to be, but sex is always on the list.
Nick: Yeah, and I would wonder how good an experience it would be to date a guy that wasn’t interested in sex.
Michael Fiore: We get emails from those women all the time, and they’re miserable.
Nick: Yeah, so what I would say is that you need to accept that men are interested in sex, but you’re just looking for someone who’s not superficial, you know. If they’re trying to get sex on the first date, and that’s obvious, don’t talk back to them. But I want to say that when I get a message from a woman, if I’m not attracted to her, I don’t respond. And that may seem cold, but the fact is I don’t waste people’s time. And it’s a clear communication, you know? It’s not rude, it’s not mean, and so it goes in the other direction. If you message a guy, and he doesn’t respond, he’s not interested. Move on. There’s lot of other people.
Michael Fiore: And I made the mistake of responding to women. I would get emails occasionally from women that were much older than me or very overweight and I would respond trying to be kind and it would spiral horribly out of control.
Nick: And think of it this way: that woman is trying to make a connection with someone that’s genuine, and you’re in the way because you’re not going to make a connection with her. You’re going to be polite and like, “Oh, that’s so nice, duh, duh, duh,” and weather talk with her while she could be writing that message to somebody who’s actually interested in her. So I just get out of the way. If somebody messages me, and I’m not, like, imagining going on a date with them, they don’t hear from me. It’s not rude, it’s not mean, it is efficient.
Michael Fiore: And you’re allowed to do that with online dating. It’s actually expected. I do say in some of the material, I say the silent treatment is the most cowardly thing you can do, and that’s true if you’ve had a relationship. If you’ve actually dated somebody, then doing the fade-out is… I mean if you go on one date and don’t want to go out with them again, fine. If you’ve dated them multiple times, there’s been a physical aspect, you’ve had talks, things like that, then you owe them a phone call that says, “I don’t want to see you anymore.”
Nick: I agree with that.
Michael Fiore: Because otherwise, you’re being a coward and you’re causing them a lot more emotional distress than they need. This is different. This is online dating: you don’t know these people.
Nick: Right, and you know you’re just looking at images and text. It’s not a person, yet. And that’s… one thing is that I’m not interested in long and protracted conversations.
Michael Fiore: Online.
Nick: Online, yeah. At all. So if I find someone’s profile attractive, the first thing I do is I let them know that I was looking at their profile. And most of the dating sites you can be visible or invisible. I choose to always be visible, because I want people… because I don’t like writing… I haven’t had a lot of success writing that “Hello” message. I will sometimes if I’m really, really, really interested in meeting that person, but usually what I do is I’ll go look at their profile, and then I’ll see maybe…
Michael Fiore: If they looked at yours.
Nick: If they looked at mine. If not, I’ll go look at it again. I might and go look at someone’s profile two or three times. Just to give them the hint, like, “Wow, I’m really taking the time to look at your profile.” If they look at my profile, I’ll write them a message, because then I’m like, “Hey, we have looked at each other’s…”
Michael Fiore: It’s kind of like eye contact across the bar at that point.
Nick: Exactly. I don’t go up and talk to people, women, at a bar… well, I just don’t do that anyway. But if I were to try to talk to a woman at a bar I would have made eye contact.
Michael Fiore: The smile, there’s eye contact.
Nick: Something that says…
Michael Fiore: You check out her butt, she checks out yours, you know it’s fine. Great. Okay Nick, let’s move on to how do you get a guy to actually write you back? Women write in and say this all the time. They write guys… and again, like, I totally agree with you that if you get a message, if you send a message to a guy and he doesn’t respond, don’t take it personally…
Nick: He’s not interested.
Michael Fiore: …but he’s not interested. That doesn’t mean that you’re not interesting. It doesn’t mean that you’re not attractive, that you’re not a great person, or a beautiful woman. It means that particular man is not interested. Big freaking deal at that point. Are there any tactics that you’ve seen that women have used on you that have actually encouraged you to write them back.
Nick: All they have to do is be witty and funny and short.
Michael Fiore: But I’m not witty or funny! What do I do?
Nick: Wow.
Michael Fiore: Get witty or funny?
Nick: Get witty or funny, because a sense of humor, like a close friend of mine says, “Sex is laughing.”
Michael Fiore: Oh, good one.
Nick: And then I’m like, “Well, what do you mean?” and he goes, “Let me put it better: laughing leads to sex.”
Michael Fiore: Oftentimes. I discovered this myself.
Nick: And since all men are interested in sex as at least part of the relationship, laughing is a way to… it’s intimate and it’s a way to get closer to a person. So you want someone to get closer to you, you make them laugh.
Michael Fiore: Yeah, it creates positive endorphins, things like that. Say something unexpected, too, right? Yeah…
Nick: Don’t say something creepy or weird, because that’s also unexpected, but you know it just depends. I actually had a woman message me and be like, “I have looked at your profile more times than I feel good about. I don’t want to be a stalker, so I just had to write you because if I didn’t it would have probably been noticed that I looked at your profile way too much,” and that was it. And I was like, “That’s kind of funny.” That was risky because she used the word stalker, and that should send a person running.
Michael Fiore: Anytime you use a word, it’s like don’t think of an elephant and the elephant comes up in your room.
Nick: Don’t say “casual sex” if you don’t like it.
Michael Fiore: “I wasn’t thinking of murdering you or anything.” Uhh… what?! Why are we even talking about that?
Nick: But I ended up… I didn’t date her, but we ended up becoming good friends. Meeting in person and she ended up like getting a connection with somebody that she wanted and it was because she was willing to put herself out there and say something a little vulnerable. Now you have to be careful with vulnerability, because it has to be coupled with humor, or else it’s just like, “Why are you trying to be vulnerable with me? I don’t know you.”
Michael Fiore: Yeah. Too much, over-sharing at that point, which happens all the time where people are giving everything of themselves.
Nick: I always say that when you’re on a date or when you’re communicating with a woman online, my opinion is that most women are just waiting for you to eliminate yourself.
Michael Fiore: Yeah!
Nick: They basically, like another friend of mine says, “Any time you’re spending time with a woman that’s single and you’re single, you’re in!” Basically going to start a relationship with her, she’s just waiting for you to eliminate yourself.
Michael Fiore: To screw it up in some way.
Nick: And almost everybody finds a way to do that along the way. So that’s kind of an interesting perspective ’cause it says less is more. It says that being, taking time to think things through before you say them is not necessarily the worst thing in the world, and try to make it a positive experience.
Michael Fiore: I think it’s important to understand that online dating is an artificial environment, too. Like it’s an artificial environment, just like speed dating, just like bars are, to a certain degree. And something else: it’s like, yesterday, I was doing an interview with a good friend of mine who interviewed me for something, and we were talking about game-playing and how game-playing gets a really bad rap because it should be a game. Games are fun if you do them right. People actually think about playing games all the time as actually more like some kind of manipulative warfare, which isn’t what we’re going for at all. Lying isn’t playing games, but dating should be a game, should be fun, it should be sexy, it should be interesting, it should be light at that point. You’re not looking for a husband online, you’re looking for a message. You’re looking for a date from that message, you’re looking for the next message, and then you’re looking for something from there. But having a much lighter attitude towards it is what makes it successful, not like being all doom and gloom and serious all the time. Is it ever okay for a woman to lie on her profile?
Nick: That’s a tough thing, because one of the things I mention on my profile is that I didn’t lie about my height.
Michael Fiore: How tall are you?
Nick: I’m 5’10” and I’m actually 5’10” and 3/4 inches. But…
Michael Fiore: So you did lie about your height!
Nick: Well isn’t that funny. What I actually said was, “I don’t overestimate my height,” because every man, and I’ve had several women tell this, there’s not a single man they’ve met online that didn’t lie about their height. Now I think that’s kind of ludicrous since it’s pretty easy to verify.
Michael Fiore: I’m 6’1″ and I’ve always just said I’m 6’1″ but I’m also 6’1″ so it’s like, well, I’m taller than most.
Nick: But a guy who’s 5’8″ says he’s 5’10”.
Michael Fiore: Really?
Nick: And pretty much like so many women that I have met, one of the first things they say is, “Oh my god, you’re actually 5’10”! I thought you’d be like 5’7″ or something.” And I was like well… and you know my eyes are blue. Like…
Michael Fiore: This is my actual face, as well. Here’s the counter argument: men lie about how much money they make and how tall they are. Women lie about their weight and how old they are. And there are woman who… so men will say “If I don’t lie about my height, I won’t get any dates because a lot of women who are 5’6″ won’t date someone who is under 5’10”.”
Nick: Then she… then they need to find a woman that’s not superficial.
Michael Fiore: They’re not out there. What if those guys simply say they’re not out there. What if they say there’s no chance in hell I’m going to meet somebody because all these… like I have a friend who’s 5’3″. Good guy, has the hardest time in the world meeting girls because, well, he’s 5’3″.
Nick: Has he thought…
Michael Fiore: Is that fair?
Nick: No. Because if he lies about it, they’re going to be horribly disappointed on the first date. It’s not going to work. What he needs to do is target, look for women that are 5’2″.
Michael Fiore: Yeah.
Nick: Because there’s loads of them out there.
Michael Fiore: There are loads of them out there.
Nick: Or 5’0″ or 4’11”, because there’s actually huge… and they don’t…
Michael Fiore: The problem is like sometimes an inch matters a lot. And then when women are… okay obviously Nick, sometimes an inch matters A LOT. When women are looking, we’ll turn this around in a second, but when women are looking online, they will say, “Only show me guys between the heights of 5’9″ and 6’3″.” You’re 5’8″, you’re great guy, you might be her soul mate, you might be perfect, you don’t show up.
Nick: Well, and that’s actually exactly what I do. I have learned that I don’t enjoy dating women that are my height or higher.
Michael Fiore: Oh, interesting.
Nick: So basically, my cutoff is 5’9″.
Michael Fiore: I know a woman who you dated who was your height or higher… interesting.
Nick: And I didn’t enjoy it. You know, because it’s a silly thing of just when they wear heels, a four-inch heel that makes them tower over me, which is no problem with me and my ego, but it is a problem for them. Because suddenly they’re dating a guy who is much shorter than them. And it’s not real, but I just I’ve found that it’s an unnecessary… if I can avoid it, I will.
Michael Fiore: But let’s turn this around, because I think this is important. Women lie about their age because… and again my mom and various other women I’ve talked to about this phenomenon, where especially when you get up there into the 40s, 50s and 60s, you’re dealing with guys who only want to date women who are 10, 20, 30 years younger.
Nick: But that’s like, you’re not going to win with them no matter what you do.
Michael Fiore: But say you have a woman who is 55 years old, in good shape, takes care of herself, hasn’t let herself go, looks like she could easily pass for 45, could easily pass for 40 or something like that on a really good day with a good pair of sunglasses. Is it okay for her to lie a couple of years one way or the other just to get on the board?
Nick: I don’t know about that. Probably, because there is such adverse atmosphere of ageism.
Michael Fiore: There is, yeah.
Nick: Against women over 40. And I’ll agree with that. Myself, I haven’t… I actually dated three women who were my age in the last two years, but I’ve dated 10 women who were a decade younger than me in the last…
Michael Fiore: I think that’s probably because you don’t present as 44.
Nick: Right, and that’s… the thing is is that I’ve also had a conversation with a woman online who was 50 that I thought was drop-dead gorgeous, and believe me she was beautiful. I didn’t care if she was 60. She was hot and living life and had really dynamic pictures, a great personality. If she hadn’t lived in Vancouver, B.C. I’d probably be dating her. You know, that’s just the reality. So unfortunately, superficial people are going to be dissuaded by differences. And you have to ask yourself, what kind of person do you want to end up with?
Michael Fiore: True, but I also… Again I’m not really sure I have an answer to this particular question either, because I do know a lot of women in their 50s who the only guys that write them are 70, right? And they don’t want to date an old man. They want to date a guy who’s their age or maybe a few years younger. And there also is a problem with a lot of these guys who are, again… I got an email once on my Facebook page from a guy who was saying, “No woman wants to date a guy in his 40s,” and I looked at his profile, right? And he was an old 40. He was your age, but he looked like he was 15 years…
Nick: He let himself go.
Michael Fiore: And then I think about you and I think about other friends of mine who are 50 years old or older who meet women all the time. But it’s like… Well, I’m thinking of one friend in particular: he’s in great shape, he looks good with his shirt off, he runs a business, he goes snowboarding every weekend in the winter, he does this, he does white water rafting, all these things… no problem at all. It’s not the age at that point, it’s actually the life.
Nick: Lifestyle.
Michael Fiore: It’s that you’ve made yourself old. Whereas the guy I saw online was like fat and had big bottle neck… nose glasses, bottle neck glasses? How strange. And generally just didn’t have anything kind of going on. So I think there’s that. There are a lot of guys out there who have this fantasy, especially when they first start dating online, “Okay, I just got divorced. I’m 45 years old. I’m going to pull some 25 year girls online.” And hopefully they figure out that that’s not going to happen, or they get scammed. They get scammed by transvestites in some case, which is kind of an interesting thing, or they get scammed by these like pay sites that are basically trying to pull you off there. But is there anything a woman can do who is 45 years old who wants to date a 45 year old guy? Or is it just hope for that very small pool of men who are actually interested in dating women his own age?
Nick: I mean, the thing is, is that if I went out on a date with a woman and I was really attracted to her and it was really working and she said, “You know, I’m not 39, I’m actually 45, and I just do that because so many people have their filters turned off to anything over 40. It’s boring. I don’t want to date people in their 60s.”
Michael Fiore: So the attitude…
Nick: If she can be frank and up front with that once we have some chemistry going on and it’s obvious that like I’m way into a second date or a third date and there’s no question there, it’s probably going to be fine.
Michael Fiore: I think the key is there that when you admit it, you make it a positive as opposed to a negative.
Nick: Right.
Michael Fiore: You say “Well, listen, I only did that because otherwise I only end up dating these guys that can’t keep up with me and you seem like you can,” right?
Nick: Right. That’s a great response.
Michael Fiore: There’s a little bit of cockiness there.
Nick: It’s like if I put that I’m 45, I get a lot of tired men that are interested in me.
Michael Fiore: Tired old men who can’t keep up.
Nick: And the fact is is that I don’t feel like… you know they could even reverse it” “I don’t feel like most men in their 40s can keep up with me, so you can imagine how delighted I was to find that you can.”
Michael Fiore: It’s also interesting because I was talking this morning to some people that I’m working on this with, and we were talking about how there’s also this phenomenon these days with a lot of women in their 40s getting written by guys in their 20s, right? And we were wondering if was a generational thing at this point because I think like probably you’re at the upper end of it, but like my generation and such doesn’t really get the sexism thing in the same way right? Like guys in their 50s and maybe their 40s to a certain degree and 60s etc. who are out there dating are still into this idea of like, you know, men should always go for the younger woman and that kind of thing and men are superior. Whereas guys my age and definitely younger, the guys in their 20s right now have no problem dating a woman who is older. Especially if she already has her kids and he doesn’t have to be the dad and all that kind of other stuff. And it’s an interesting phenomenon where a lot of these women are just having hard times finding guys their age.
Nick: Well, yeah, I could see that. Also I think it’s a little bit geographic.
Michael Fiore: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Nick: So if you’re… You know, when I was in my early 20s, I was very much into older women. I didn’t want to date anyone my age. I also came from an urban center with a lot of culture. So maybe that has something to do with it.
Michael Fiore: It could be, yeah.
Nick: So geography. You know, if you’re out in the middle of nowhere, it’s going to be even that [much] more difficult.
Michael Fiore: A different kind of thing.
Nick: To find somebody who’s looking for a woman that’s twice their age. But that’s actually starting to be a trend. You know, things change.
Michael Fiore: They do.
Nick: And I find that a lot of my male friends that are in their 20s are dating women in their 30s and some of them are dating women in their 40s.
Michael Fiore: I did that when I was in my 20s, I primarily dated women five or six years older than me. My fianc\'{e} is three years younger than me. I actually just kept dating women about the same age basically as I got older, and eventually ended up with a wonderful girl who is three years younger than me. But I remember it took me… it wasn’t until I was like 30, until I started dating women who were actually even a little bit younger than me. Strangest thing. So I don’t think we have a great answer for the age thing except for if you’re going to lie about your age, make sure you’re amazing first.
Nick: Yeah, because if you lie about your age and your weight, you just… you know, that’s…
Michael Fiore: If you lie about your age and your weight and how much fun you have in your life, then that’s going to be a…
Nick: That’s another thing is that it’s not just about trying to make yourself attractive, it’s like starting from a good base. You know I, when I first started dating after, you know two years ago after my relationship ended, I recognized I was in a really fractured state and that I wasn’t much of a catch. I went for more superficial at that time because I thought it was responsible. Like I wasn’t really capable. I didn’t want anyone to go much deeper with me. I wasn’t in great shape. I was a wreck.
Michael Fiore: But you wanted to go out and meet women ’cause it’s fun and invigorating.
Nick: Because it’s healthy.
Michael Fiore: Fun, yeah.
Nick: The fact is is that it’s one of the key factors in long term psychological and physical health. And there’s studies that show that like dating and interacting with new people has significant health benefits. So for me it was about not dwelling in a bad place, and I’m going to have to say that it worked, because after about a year I found that I really turned my life around in a positive way and now, you know, my online profile, before I turned it off recently, you know really reflected that. And I also happen to have a date every Friday night because of that. Because the more positive my profile got, the more authentic it was and the more personality and wit and happiness exuded from my images and what I wrote. The more suddenly the list of women that wanted to date me was getting longer and longer as opposed to when you look depressed and you sound depressed, you know.
Michael Fiore: Nobody wants to hang out with that. Doesn’t matter how cute you are at that point. You could have the greatest body in the world, but if you’re depressed all the time, nobody wants to be around it. I think that’s a good place to end, so Nick, I want to thank you very much for your time here.
Nick: Well thank you, Michael.
Michael Fiore: We shared a lot of fun stuff in our kind of freewheeling conversation, here. But again I just really like giving the man’s-eye-view on these things. And also for women who are listening, being a guy online dating is hard, too, right?
Nick: Yeah, very hard.
Michael Fiore: I think that’s important to understand, to have sympathy. And also like the guys who are just looking for sex, who are blasting out all those messages all the time, they’re the minority.
Nick: They’re not having a lot of success.
Michael Fiore: They’re not having a lot of success.
Nick: They’re just wasting everybody’s time.
Michael Fiore: They’re scatter shooting the entire thing, but they’re also a tiny minority of who’s actually out there. Most guys kill themselves just to write one message, right? And having sympathy for that is actually really important. To understand that a lot of guys are in the same place of having a hard time with this that you are. And my goal is to help people connect and actually be like, “Wow.” Like I know so many great men who never meet women. Just like I meet so many great women who never meet men. Where are they? Well, they’re right next door. You just don’t see them. So we’re going to finish this up. You know, after you listen to this we should also have a transcript of it and move on to the next module and we’ll keep on keeping on. Thank you, Nick. Bye bye.
Nick: Hey, thank you.
